Que pensez-vous de la culture soninké ? A-t-elle un avenir ?

[nas]

Ne pas être considéré comme un bon à rien et être un bon à rien, il y a une grande différence. C'est peut être à cause des parents qui n'ont aucune confiance à leurs enfants. Donc une vision sceptique de l'éducation qu'ils ont pu donner à ces derniers.

Dans ce forum il y a par exemple des gens très compétant dans leur domaine. Et en regardant un thread sur ce que les gens ont fait comme étude, j'ai remarqué qu'il y avait pas mal de financer (normale là ou il y a de l'argent, le soninké y est présent: un cliché lol).
Toi qui connais si bien la société soninké, demande par exemple à ton village d'origine de confier une partie de leur caisse à des jeunes soninkés naît dans l'immigration ou non pour faire fructifier cet argent ou l'investir dans des projets concrets , tu verras la réponse. Elle sera catégorique et ça sera NON.
Donc je ne pense pas que les enfants de france sont des bon à rien ou koi, c'est juste que c'est la vieille génération qui ne comprend rien de la façon dont le monde tourne

La question net pas d’être compétent dans un domaine ou d'avoir un bon bagage intellectuel ( des diplômes ) mais je pense que les parents attende de leurs descendance d'etre des soninké d’être des africain , d’être dans une optique d’avenir tournée vers l’Afrique et non vers l'individualisme ou le matérialisme qui sont les valeurs propre a l'occident d'aujourd'hui .

Tu souhaite dirigés une caisses de ton village ben ses simple apprend a communiquer de façon claire et précis en soninké , apprend les coutumes ou elle prend leurs source et au final pour quelle but , apprend l'histoire du soninké de l'empire OUAGADOUGOU a aujourd'hui .

Je ne dit pas que les enfants de France sont des bon a rien ceux qui est totalement faut je te donne juste l’image que la communauté soninké donne de nous je dit bien nous car moi aussi je suis née ici .

Oui on peut dire que les parents ne font pas forcément confiances en leur enfants et cet une erreur dans l'éducation et bien évidement que l'impacte sur les enfants est très péjoratif mais malgré tout ça il faut ce battre et continuer a avancé .

Mais nous qui somme née en France nous avons aussi une part de responsabiliser celle de faire un travail d'introspection de comprendre les choses le faite d’être en occident ce qui a pousser nos parents a venir ici pour quelle idéologie et optique d'avenir . On ce paire beaucoup trop facilement en occident on ce lèse trop facilement détourner de ce que nous sommes et au final ont deviens pire que les occidentaux .

[sajokuumba Kamara]

La question net pas d’être compétent dans un domaine ou d'avoir un bon bagage intellectuel ( des diplômes ) mais je pense que les parents attende de leurs descendance d'etre des soninké d’être des africain , d’être dans une optique d’avenir tournée vers l’Afrique et non vers l'individualisme ou le matérialisme qui sont les valeurs propre a l'occident d'aujourd'hui .

Tu souhaite dirigés une caisses de ton village ben ses simple apprend a communiquer de façon claire et précis en soninké , apprend les coutumes ou elle prend leurs source et au final pour quelle but , apprend l'histoire du soninké de l'empire OUAGADOUGOU a aujourd'hui .

Je ne dit pas que les enfants de France sont des bon a rien ceux qui est totalement faut je te donne juste l’image que la communauté soninké donne de nous je dit bien nous car moi aussi je suis née ici .

Oui on peut dire que les parents ne font pas forcément confiances en leur enfants et cet une erreur dans l'éducation et bien évidement que l'impacte sur les enfants est très péjoratif mais malgré tout ça il faut ce battre et continuer a avancé .

Mais nous qui somme née en France nous avons aussi une part de responsabiliser celle de faire un travail d'introspection de comprendre les choses le faite d’être en occident ce qui a pousser nos parents a venir ici pour quelle idéologie et optique d'avenir . On ce paire beaucoup trop facilement en occident on ce lèse trop facilement détourner de ce que nous sommes et au final ont deviens pire que les occidentaux .

Ka Kira,

M. Nas,

Before I make any commentaries on this dialogue, I would like to thank you very much for the translation. I was rather surprised that you did it so fast. Thanks a zillion.

I would like to draw your attention to the usage of a few words-Mande and Mandinga, the language and Mandingo, the people. When I talk of Mande, I am referring to a philosophy, a profound wisdom, a sacred knowledge that few are now aware of much less know anything about. It has gone underground because of the tyranny and demagoguery of the caliphs of Islam. But it lives and it is still to be found among some people in Mali, if no where else. If there are Sooninko and Kagoro who are not Muslims, you will invariably find some of this profound knowledge among them. For the general public, this is lost knowledge.

Now back to the dialogue. We should not fool ourselves in believing that Sooninkaaxu will exist in France or for that matter in the West in any meaningful manner other than a few making money while leaving behind a large percentage of Sooninko immigrant descendants in the ghettos. The sad part of the present situation is that the most dynamic of the Sooninko are the ones leaving Sooninkara to create the ghettos of France and England and other places. Of course, they are joined here by members of many other failed societies in the African continent.

The question is what can be done at the communal level to rescue as many of the children in poor schools to excel. What can the Sooninke communities in France do to give their children an excellent education? Only the language and Islam are holding the Sooninko together. By the third or fourth generation, both would have been lost. The French language will be their mother tongue and they will be content to live in the ghettos and do the best they can to survive caring for nothing else.

Please study the American ghetto. France too will develop a similar ghetto composed largely of the descendants of immigrants from her former colonies. Without community and right education, these descendants will remain pseudo-Frenchmen and women. Of course, those with brains and proper guidance will excel, get their diplomas and leave the ghetto. This is the pattern in the American ghetto. The immigrants are not integrated in the larger French society outside of the labor they provide at work. There is no social integration and there is not a chance for such an integration. The immigrant society is a separate entity. Now the larger question is whether it will remain separate as a conscious decision of the immigrants and their descendants and if so how it will survive as a living, vibrant society. Is there a way to give the immigrants excellent education without losing them to the integrated fringe society?

In the USA, the majority of immigrant children have rejected the world of their first generation parents. A small percentage joins the white middle class while the vast majority remains with the dwellers of the large American ghetto. Hip Hop is the only way that this class has managed to enter Main Street, as it is said here.

The question is can a community be created that will take of the children? The nuclear family will fail disastrously as two working parents will leave their children to school teachers. Mind you, these school teachers are not in Africa. This is the way they enter gangs and how the seedy lifestyle of gangland takes over. You may throw out Sooninkaaxu as it has failed the first generation of immigrants. What values will you teach them for they will largely reject Islam too or just pay it lip service?

So you see the dilemma. Their parents ran away from failed societies just to create another failed society on foreign soil. Without an enlightened immigrant society, this is exactly what is going to happen, another American style ghetto in the cities and towns of France and other European countries. Now go a little further. Bring in a scenario in which the European far right resurrects the ghost of Hitler and decides to do away with this vermin. If they could slaughter their own kind who converted to Judaism (six million of them by some counts) and if they could murder each other over religion and enslave the world of the descendants of the immigrants for over four hundred years, what are they not capable of?

The real question is there a future for the descendants of those who migrated from the colonies to France or for that matter in Europe? This is the real question. This is what we dialogue on. History teaches that extreme success or extreme failure by a non-integrated minority group are not taken well by the larger society particularly if the failed ones resort to crime and criminal behavior. Hitler wanted the Jew exterminated and many Europeans agreed with him. Do not accept the current support of the Jews as testimony that this was an isolated case. The next genocide may well be the descendants of immigrants because they are no longer needed, because they are largely black, because they do not adhere to middle class values and because they are followers of Mohammed among others.


Think on this.

[idipro]

The real question is there a future for the descendants of those who migrated from the colonies to France or for that matter in Europe? This is the real question. This is what we dialogue on.

Salama Mr Kamara!

Depending on what you call FUTURE, there should be and there will be a YES answer to your question.
If you could be more Precise on the world Future, I would certainly participate on this interesting debate.

Until then, You take good care of urself.

Wa salam.

[sajokuumba Kamara]

Salama Mr Kamara!


If you could be more Precise on the world Future, I would certainly participate on this interesting debate.

Until then, You take good care of urself.

Wa salam.

Mr. Idipro and all participants,

By future, I mean being a French citizen with all the rights, privileges and duties that citizenship places on you. By citizenship, I mean the right to participate fully, adroitly, and legally in the social, political, economic, cultural, and intellectual life of the country where you are a citizen by birth or by the legal processes legislated by the state.

To further define this term future, we have to look at it via three lenses-one lens is that of the first generation immigrants, the other is the lens of the generations that issue from the presence of the first generation onward and the third is that of the dominant society. Failure in Africa is the principal reason why there is a massive immigration to France and her sister countries in Europe. How many are legal residents? How many are citizens? How many have received technical and professional training? How many are living in decent houses, decent apartments, in short, decent residences? How many can return home to engage in decent work that can promise them prosperity? When worse comes to worst, what are the chances that the French authorities will tolerate them and let them stay to benefit from social welfare?

Now look at the second generation onward. They are born in France, so they are naturally French citizens by right of birth according to French law if I have understood what I have read. Now my friends, how many of these young immigrant children will do well in school to learn enough of the French culture and society to excel in it? These are generations caught in the middle, between their African parents' cultures and the larger French society. By future, I also mean social, political, and economic integration. How many of the children issuing from immigrant marriages will learn enough, know enough to push their way and be fully integrated in French society? Is integration what they really want? Or do they wish for a a separate culture, a separate society within the larger French society, that is, a society within a society? Will the larger dominant society agree to this arrangement?

As you see, I am trying to develop a case for full integration in French Society either as a minority culture and society (but a minority group that is in harmony with the larger French society because it knows it very well and is respectful of its mores as the larger society is aware of the immigrant society's mores and is also equally respectful of them) or as a fully integrated minority group that is fully assimilated.

Is there a future for a fully integrated minority group in a France and by extension a Europe that no longer needs its colonial dependents? Will the French co-exist with a different people with strange cultures like polygamy when the economic condition which made their presence tolerable is no longer there?

In short, the real question is will France remain home for the descendants of immigrants from the colonies when such people are longer needed and they are by and large a drain on the national coffers?

Now can you see future as a meaning a home for the descendants of the immigrants no matter what happens to the European economy? Take home in its broadest sense: citizenship with inviolable rights, duties, privileges, and a deep sense of ease and a sense of security.

I have spent some four years in Europe with a stretch of time in France before heading to the USA. I have studied this question closely in the USA. Here too, it is assimilation into the larger White American society or separate and inferior existence at the fringes of society. In my mind, the problem is not different in France. The descendants of immigrants face a similar problem-integration or marginalization. Political activism in the USA led to a certain degree of tolerance for integration for those who have met the conditions to join White Middle Society. My observation is that this is not where you will find the majority of the descendants of the our Black cousins. It is not different in France when I was there. The bright and talented ones always escape. And the rest? Aren't they citizens by law? Isn't this law not made by Man? If so, can't Man repeal the law that has made you a citizen and drive you out? Isn't this the far right's political agenda?

Think on this?

[makalou]

Salam

ici c'est England dééé... " God saves the king heu pardon the queen lol "...